Kenney Jones: An Interview with SDE – SuperDeluxeEdition

Small Faces drummer discusses ‘The Autumn Stone’ reissue (with producer Rob Caiger)

This year marks the 60th anniversary of Immediate Records, the legendary label founded in 1965 by Rolling Stones manager Andrew Loog Oldham and his business partner Tony Calder. To celebrate, a new edition of the Small Faces’ final album, The Autumn Stone, from 1969, is available in both a 3LP box set and a 3CD edition.

Curated by the band’s drummer, Kenney Jones, who also performed with the Faces and The Who, both formats feature previously unreleased tracks that have been newly mixed from session tapes at Olympic Studios. This new version has been greatly enhanced compared to the flawed, rushed original ‘best of’ LP, which came out more than six months after the band members had parted ways and formed the Faces and Humble Pie.

SDE spoke with Jones, the last surviving member of the Small Faces, and Rob Caiger, Immediate’s archivist and reissues producer, about the vision behind the box set, the challenges involved in its production, and other releases planned in honor of the label’s 60^th anniversary.

SDE: WhenThe Autumn Stone was released in late 1969, the Small Faces had disbanded. Except for Steve Marriott, the other band members weren’t aware of the album’s release until it happened…

Kenney Jones: I wasn’t informed at all – I assumed it was just Andrew Oldham and Tony Calder trying to capitalize on the band’s past.

How did you feel about it at the time?

Kenney: Honestly, I didn’t feel anything – it didn’t occupy my thoughts.

But Steve Marriott had been compensated by Immediate for remixing some tracks…

Kenney: I only learned that recently. The best part is that with Rob [Caiger] and me now involved, it’s finally out as it should be, which feels rewarding even if it’s years later. That’s what truly matters to me.

I’ve contributed a lot, and along with Rob and Nigel [Adams – co-owner of Jones’ label Nice Records], I take pride in ensuring our releases are meaningful and provide value for fans.

And, after over 55 years, you finally have the band’s name on the cover…

Kenney: [laughs] I know…

Original Small Faces photographer,Gered Mankowitz, was closely involved in creating the new artwork, correct?

Kenney: Indeed – he has done an excellent job.

How has it been revisiting the album and relistening to the songs? Has it been a pleasant experience?

Kenney: It’s been somewhat isolating, but I feel the presence of the boys with me… I can sense them looking down and saying, ‘Well done, Ken…’

[To RobCaiger]: What was the initial concept for the box set?

RobCaiger: We discussed it, but I don’t believe a comprehensive Small Faces career retrospective box set could ever be done, as they only recorded for Decca and Immediate for around three years – there isn’t a vast amount of recorded material. The AutumnStone just made sense. As we progressed, we discovered more elements and it grew…

We began a long time ago. You know the history of Immediate… [the label ceased functioning in 1970 due to financial difficulties]. After years of planning and searching for materials, it took us roughly three months to assemble the box set.

I must give credit to Andrew [Loog Oldham] – even more so than Tony [Calder]… Andrew was just 23 years old [in 1967], and the rest were even younger – no one was experienced, yet they should’ve had a better grasp of the business side…

Kenney: I am invested in it now, but I wasn’t when I was younger…

Rob: You were immersed in it, creating music… We’ve been working on finding tapes for the past 25 years… Immediate collapsed, and Andrew had to liquidate… He lost control, and other entities took over, including the liquidator. Numerous recordings were discarded, lost, or stolen. At one point, the liquidator ordered many master tapes to be destroyed due to ownership disputes. So, my job of recovering these tapes, especially the session multi-tracks, began…

Tapes can be found in unexpected places – particularly with Immediate… Thank goodness for private collectors, like engineers and Kenney himself, who kept them stored well. There’s a discipline among certain musicians, and Kenney exemplifies that.

The Autumn Stone was originally intended to be part of the series we did with Charly [Records]. We finished a 2LP version back in 2015. Before that, I spoke with Kenney and Mac [Ian McLagan – Small Faces keyboard player who passed away in 2014] and found out that the album wasn’t complete – two sides only ran 10 minutes.

I involved Kenny, who suggested other tracks [to include] that they enjoyed, so we’ve incorporated those, changed its flow, and added two new acoustic mixes [‘The Autumn Stone’ and ‘Red Balloon’]. The acoustic mixes featured in the [Here Comes The Nice] CD box set will not be reissued, as it was a Kenney and Mac project – but I wanted some of them on vinyl, which we’ve achieved. Now the album has a cohesive flow, which the original lacked.

Did you encounter technical issues with the live recordings included? Were adjustments needed for speed and pitch?

Rob: The original version of The Autumn Stone had some technical flaws, but credit must go to Tony Calder for pioneering the concept of a greatest hits compilation with another record label [Decca – in addition to Immediate] – that was groundbreaking. There were indeed technical glitches… The Decca tracks had been manipulated, suffering from phasing issues, while the live recordings had incorrect pitch and speed, with excessive audience noise. We located an earlier tape with less audience interference, and everything is now at the correct speed.

Some issues surfaced with ‘Afterglow’ – the stereo version was included, though the tape got damaged towards the end, leading to a switch from stereo to mono for part of it. All technical mistakes have been rectified – they’re all sourced from the master tapes. I was thrilled that we managed to retrieve the tapes, including an unreleased jam…

This track is an instrumental titled ‘Olympic Jam’, featuring a funky, boogie-woogie groove recorded with producer Eddie Kramer at Olympic Studios. How did you discover it?

Rob: It was found at the end of a reel by The Apostolic Intervention, Jerry Shirley’s band on Immediate – they were recording a session that Steve [Marriott] was producing, possibly with Ronnie [Lane], covering ‘Green Circles’ [by the Small Faces], which remains unreleased.

Tacked onto the end, with no credits, was an unfinished track by the Small Faces. We mixed the four tracks as they were, and it had a delightful vibe—definitely deserving of a place on the box set.

‘Green Circles’ by the Small Faces is also included in the box set – Kenney, you chose this song because you and the band enjoyed recording it. It was one of your earliest psychedelic songs, correct?

Kenney: Absolutely – it’s among my favorites due to the drumming.

Rob: It features superb percussion…

‘Wham, Bam, Thank You, Mam’, which is featured on the box set, has a heavier rock sound, while ‘The Autumn Stone’ is more folky and soulful. Do you think those tracks exemplify what the proper follow-up album to Ogdens’ Nut Gone Flake could have sounded like if the Small Faces had completed it?

Kenney: ‘Wham, Bam, Thank You, Mam’ is one of my all-time favorite tracks—the closest we got to true rock and roll.

Rob: If ‘The Autumn Stone’ had come out as a single, as originally intended, with ‘Wham, Bam, Thank You, Mam’ on the other side, it would have showcased the band’s diverse range in just one single. Reflecting on the album that could have emerged, there was significant variety, but Steve felt he couldn’t realize it with the Small Faces, which is why he pursued it [with Humble Pie], blending folk and rock.

The Small Faces had the potential to execute it much better because we were democratic. In Humble Pie, it was primarily Steve’s vision—one person drove everything. Mac mentioned to me that’s when Steve transitioned from singing to shouting.

‘Collibosher’, included on The Autumn Stone, is an instrumental leftover from the Ogdens’ sessions…

Kenney: Exactly – we produced many instrumentals, and I believe we might have other hidden gems somewhere.

Rob: There is another, longer and heavier version of ‘Collibosher’, guitar-driven and devoid of brass. All the instrumentals, like ‘Collibosher’ and ‘Wide Eyed Girl On The Wall’, were intended to include vocals since the eighth track on all eight-track session tapes was left blank for lead vocals, so who knows what could have been…

[To Kenney]: It’s widely known that the Small Faces faced exploitation by both their manager, Don Arden, and Immediate. As the last surviving member of the band, it must be crucial for you to address any royalty issues concerning the back catalogue for yourself and the families of the other members…

Kenney: I’m thrilled to be involved in this. All I can say is thank goodness for Rob Caiger – he compiled this for us and has done extensive research into locating the tapes and poring over the archives.

Rob: Ongoing alongside that is examining the royalties – tracking their whereabouts… Some matters remain unresolved. You won’t retrieve everything from the past, but when Immediate went bankrupt, Andrew was the biggest loser—£250,000 of his own money, equivalent to over £2 million today.

The Small Faces lost royalties, and while we’re addressing some specifics, we currently cannot disclose. It continues, but as we increase our releases and Kenney participates in interviews, visibility rises. The Small Faces are still cherished with a devoted fan base; we should honor them. Unfortunately, three band members have passed, so it’s vital we fulfill our responsibility to their families.

So, there aren’t really any other Small Faces rarities left to unearth?

Kenney: I’m sure we’ll stumble upon something…

Rob: The moment we claim there’s nothing, a cache of tapes will likely surface…

What plans do you have for releasing material by other artists from the Immediate archives in commemoration of the label’s 60^th anniversary?​

Rob: There’s a treasure trove of fantastic material that never saw the light of day that we’ve managed to compile. We’re actually sitting on valuable assets. Much of this has been passed down from Abbey Road archives since EMI was the original manufacturer and distributor of Immediate, and they were fairly diligent with archiving – not everything, but most.

I’ve gathered items from all over the globe, effectively building an Immediate archive. Charly possesses a significant number of multi-tracks I’ve examined, and BMG, the UK rights holder we license from, has specific unreleased tapes of Humble Pie that Jerry Shirley has explored. The focus will be artist-led, an essential element for these projects.

Kenney: It’s crucial to have artist involvement.

Rob: So yes, there are plans – all you could hope for—if there’s an audience for it, of course. As you know, vinyl isn’t cheap… incredibly expensive – and if there’s support, thanks to great platforms like SDE that connect us directly with fans, we aim to prioritize getting it to them rather than going through retail. Immediately, you forfeit 40%, which is fair, yet I prefer the funds to go to the bands and artists, hence the need for it to be artist-led.

Quality control is paramount, achievable only if the artist retains a voice. Some labels, whether major or independent, still neglect giving artists that voice. If a fan base exists, and we can deliver records to them, what do they want? Their desired connection with the artist.

We have our goals, but it’s the logistical side… we must ensure everything is in order. It makes one nostalgic for the days when Immediate would just put things out there and apologize later—they released things like Ogdens’ in a round sleeve… who would have thought? But here we are in 2025…

We’re planning a Small Faces documentary focused on ‘All or Nothing’ reaching number one in 1966, and since the Small Faces stereo albums have never returned since their original issue, they would be a great addition to a compact box set, with In Memoriam included as well.

I’m currently reviewing a Vashti Bunyan session – I’ve come across a multi-track featuring Jimmy Page and Big Jim Sullivan, along with a Rod Stewart session with Mike d’Abo. It’s just Rod’s vocals and piano – he had such an incredible voice.

What about anything by Billy Nicholls, who created the outstanding ‘lost’Immediate album Would You Believe?

Rob: It’s the English Pet Sounds in my opinion… Kenney has been key in discussions with Billy, who wants to collaborate on it. He possesses plenty of material that never made it onto the original album – we could easily turn it into a box set.

[To Kenney]: How does it feel to discuss 60 years of Immediate?

Kenney: Oh, good grief. If only my memory were reliable, it would be wonderful!

What was it like being with Immediate at the time and how do you reflect on it now?

Kenney: It was incredible to be supported by a company that recognized our potential and wanted to collaborate – they provided us with ample studio time. Ultimately, we had to cover the cost, but we didn’t grasp that initially. Andrew was remarkably astute – he understood that the only way to inspire the Small Faces’ creativity was to immerse us in a creative environment, the studio, where we crafted those wonderful songs.

Do you have regrets concerning how the Small Faces ended? You reunited in the mid-late ‘70s, which proved unsuccessful. How do you reflect on that time?

Kenney: It’s disheartening. I wish I hadn’t participated – it was around the onset of punk, and Steve was turning the atmosphere sour. I just hoped the stage would open up and swallow me whole. It seemed a fantastic idea at the moment, yet I should have recognized the red flags when we initially reunited with the original band, including Ronnie Lane… A conflict arose between Ronnie and Steve, leading Ronnie to depart… I should have followed suit back then.

What’s the current status with the Faces? Any plans to collaborate with Ronnie Wood and Rod Stewart?

Kenney: We’re somewhat working on an album, but very quietly… We’ve produced some lovely tracks and continue to work together – there’s no rush, but we’re fitting it around everyone’s extensive tours! Just when you think you’re making progress, the Stones announce something… Ronnie says, ‘I’m off for three months – catch you later.’ Then Rod adds, ‘While he’s away, I might as well pursue my own projects…’

Rob: Dealing with musicians who, growing up, developed a strong work ethic, they haven’t changed. It’s incredibly frustrating, yet you can’t argue against their dedication.

Thanks to Kenney Jones and Rob Caiger, who spoke with Sean Hannam for SDE. The Autumn Stone box set is now available through Immediate Records in collaboration with Nice Records.